Αυγα απο scalare

[christipan]

Καλησπέρα

Χρόνια πολλά και Καλα σε όλους!

Τους τελευταίους μήνες τα σκαλαρια μου κάθε 15 με 20 μέρες μου γεννάνε

αλλά το περισσότερο που μου έχουν κρατήσει τα αυγά είναι 2 μέρες περίπου.

http://www.aquazone.gr/forums/index.php?showtopic=5801

το ζευγάρι είναι μόνο του σε 100 λίτρα και όσο υπάρχουν τα αυγά είναι συνέχεια από πάνω τούς και τα αερίζουν (ιδιαίτερα ο αρσενικός ).

Το πρόβλημα είναι ότι συνήθως στο ξημέρωμα της τρίτης μέρας τα αυγά χάνονται

στην τελευταία γέννα τα αυγά το βράδυ ήταν στην θέση τους και μερικά είχαν ασπρίσει.

Φωτισμός : 2 x 25w

Θερμοκρασία : 27c

PH : 7.2~7.5

ΚΗ : 6

GH : 9

NO3 : 0

NH4 : 0

θα ήθελα αν μπορεί κάποιος να με βοηθήσει και αν γνωρίζει ποιες είναι η ιδανικές συνθήκες για αναπαραγωγή?

Τα αυγά δεν θέλω να τα απομακρύνω απο τούς γονείς τούς.

[pan]

Γνωμη ειναι ειναι να ριξεις το ph στο 6,8 και το kh στο 2 με 3.Στο νερο σου ριχνεις blackwater??ολα αυτα που σου ειπα θα βοηθησουν να εχεις λιγοτερες πιθανοτητες να εχεις fungus στα αυγα σου (που ασπριζουν) και ετσι πιστευω να εχεις καλυτερες πιθανοτητες σε μια επομενη γεννα

Καλη Επιτυχια

[christipan]

Εχω Cο2 αλλά προς το παρών δεν έχω ph controller και δεν μπορώ να φέρω ακριβώς το ph στο 6.8 αλλά περίπου στα ~7.

στο νερό ρίχνω της tropical το querex (σαν black water)

fungus γενικά δεν έβγαζαν τα αυγά (μέχρι την τελευταία φορά που τα έβλεπα) αυτή την φορά έβγαλαν λίγο περισσότερο αλλά ίσως να ήταν και τυχαίο.

[PAST]

Παιζει ρολο και το ζευγαρι που εχεις.

Οι συνθηκες που εχεις ειναι μια χαρα. Απλως προσπαθησε να ειναι σταθερες οι τιμες.

Εμενα γεννησαν κανονικα σε ΡΗ 7.5, ΚΗ 9, GH 12-13.

Αυτη την στιγμη εχω γυρω στα 20 μικρα 3 εβδομαδων και καμμια 200αρια αυγα (απο συνολο 600) απο την 2η επιτυχημενη γεννα τα οποια σε 2-3 μερες τα περιμενω να αρχισουν την κολυμβηση.

Εν τω μεταξυ στο διαστημα αναμεσα στις 2 γεννες εχω κατεβασει το ΡΗ στο 6,8 με CO2 χωρις κοντρολερ.

Στις πρωτες 3 γεννες δεν μπορεσαν να βγουν μικρα. (μια τα εφαγε ο πλεκο, μια ο αρσενικος οταν τα μαζευε απο κατω για να τα βαλει στην θεση τους ετρωγε τα μισα κτλ.). Τωρα πλεον ξερουν τι να κανουν.

Δεν ριχνω τιποτα απολυτος στο ενυδρειο (black water κ.τ.λ.).

Απλως τις πρωτες 2 μερες αφησε καποιο φως ανοιχτο το βραδυ να φαινονται τα αβγα και να μπορουν να τα αεριζουν οι γονεις..

Απο κει και περα ειναι θεμα του ζευγαριου αν θα καταφερει να τα κρατησει.

Και αν εχεις ακομα τους πλεκο μεσα να 'σαι σιγουρος οτι, οτιδηποτε και να κανουν τα σκαλαρια σου, αυτοι θα καταφερουν να φανε τα αυγα.

[christipan]

Τους pleco τούς έχω βγάλει από την πρώτη γέννα, φως υπάρχει το βράδυ με μπλε led και βλέπουν αρκετά καλά

και γενικά μέχρι να χαθούν τα αυγά το βράδυ όλα πάνε super!

Φοβήθηκα οτι φταίει το νερό μου (gh 9) εφόσον έχεις καταφέρει αναπαραγωγή με μεγαλύτερες τιμές από εμένα τότε κάτι άλλο συμβαίνει

[mzahof]

διαβαζοντας τα πολυ ενδιαφεροντα που γραφετε περι αναπαραγωγης σκαλαριων θα ηθελα να παραθεσω τις δικες μου παρομοιες εμπειριες.

συμφωνα με αρθρα απο ξενα φορουμς, πιστευω οτι το προβλημα σου οφειλεται στο νεαρο της ηλικιας των σκαλαριων σου και σιγουρα θα βελτιωθουν και θα διορθωθουν στις επομενες γεννες.

τα δικα μου εχουν γεννησει μολις δυο φορες χωρις επιτυχια και αναμενω ανυπομονα την τριτη τους.

σκοπευω να απομακρυνω μερος των αυγων σε 10 λιτ ενυδρειακι με νερο απο το αρχικο, αντλια αερα, ιδια θερμοκρασια ~26ο και προσθηκη κυανου του μεθυλενιου ως αντιμυκητιασικο.

δειτε μια φωτο απο την τελευταια γεννα.

το ζευγαρι ψαχνει ενα πλατυ και οριζοντιο φυλλο, οπως της ανουμπιας, το οποιο το καθαριζει και το περιποιειται σχεδον μια εβδομαδα πριν αποθεσει τα αυγα.

[mzahof]

το παρακατω αρθρο ειναι πολυ αναλυτικο για συνθηκες και υλικα μεσα....

ελπιζω να γνωριζετε καλα αγγλικα.

Raising Angelfish My Way

Copyright 1996 Sam McDonald

By Sam McDonald

saltysam@sound.net

March 13, 1996

The following article is how I raised several hundred fish a month, for sale to local pet shops. The article deals with equipment, setups, and the actual selection of a mated pair of Angelfish. It continues into the actual artificial hatching of the eggs, to raising the fry to a saleable size.

Step by step instructions will be given and explained, for a two 20 gallon hatching setup. You will find it successful, and soon you will need a lot more space than the two tanks provide. I hope you find it interesting and informative.

A strong reminder, for novice and advanced fishkeepers. If you plan to try my method, please read the complete article before you start. Make sure that you understand the process from start to finish.

The subjects covered, are essential to becoming successful. Reading a few paragraphs and beginning, is paramount to failure.

The article should be classified as commercial scale breeding. There is no emphasis placed on the visual quantities of the aquarium. The major thrust of the article, is to allow the reader to gain an in-depth understanding of breeding the animals. Its focus is toward, minimum maintenance, ease of upkeep, and minimizing cost of production. With this brief description and understanding, its time to begin.

I have designed the project, using simple English. Anyone can understand it. This article as written, is not to impress you with Latin and scientific terminology. It is an effective way, of raising Angelfish.

The Equipment

The minimum setups required to raise the Angelfish on a small scale, for resale to pet shops in your local area.

1. Two 20 gallon aquariums or larger

2. Two air pumps of adequate size.

3. Two 75 watt heaters.

4. Two outside power filters.

5. Several yards of airline tubing.

6. Two dip nets. One large one small.

7. One 2 tube four foot florescent light fixture.

8. One small electric adjustable timer.

,, One five gallon plastic bucket

10. One Two gallon plastic pail.

11. One Ground fault interupter, plug in type.

12. One general DH kit for testing.

13. One pH kit for testing.

14. Two thermometers.

15. One box of Rid-x or Fritzyme

16. A sponge filter

Locate the aquariums, on a flat level table or stand in a heated area of your basement. A location close to a water supply, drain and electric outlet, works well. Close attention to location minimizes damage, if a leak develops in the aquarium. Be sure to install the plug in ground fault interupter. Have a qualified electrician, wire the florescent light fixture in the proper position above the tanks.

Rinse and fill the first tank with clean tap water. Install one outside filter and make sure that the filter media is clean. Place one of the heaters and a thermometer in the tank and set the heater dial to 78f. You may have to adjust the setting, to maintain the required temperature. Let the water stand overnight to balance the heater setting and compensate the room temperature. In twenty-four hours any chlorine should be dissipated to a safe level.

To build a growth of bacteria on the filter media, you must add fish, or use additives as directed. Fritzyme #7 or Rid-X will work without adding fish. You can use Rid-X, by pouring one cup of the material into a quart jar. Stir the material, then allow the contents to settle to the bottom. Pour off the liquid into the aquarium.

All adjustments will be made from the base conditions of your tap water. Test the pH reading of your water. You can use several common chemicals to change the pH. If the reading is on the acid side, add baking soda. If the pH reading is on the alkaline side, add basic H.

In many parts of North America, dissolved minerals are in the water supply. Water that contains high levels of calcium or magnesium is called hard. Where minerals are absent, the water is called soft.

Take a general hardness test of the water. If your tap water is too hard, you can soften it by filtering it through peat moss or chemical pillows. If your water is too soft, add small pieces of limestone to the tank. Another method of changing the hardness is to use distilled water. By adding distilled water to an existing tank, the DH can be lowered. It is advisable to aerate distilled water for a few days before use.

Now that the tank and adjustments are complete, allow the tank filter to run for 48 hours. Make minor adjustments as required to stabilize the water. Make notes so you will not be guessing when its time for the next minor adjustments. For the first few times, always retest the pH of the water, after making minor adjustments. Changing the hardness level, can in some cases change the pH.

Angelfish

Angelfish, are members of the cichlid family, and classified as, at least two species, P. scalare, P. altum. and maybe more. Disagreement often arises between the classifications of the fish, as they can successfully breed with each other. The inability to breed and produce fertile offspring, is usually the final determination of species or subspecies classifications. Because of this rule, I disagree and believe the Angelfish to be one species with several sub species.

The Angelfish species is a mainstay fish sold in pet shops around the world and comes in many colors and fin shapes. The fish originated in the rivers of South America, specifically, the Amazon, Ocho Rios, and Rio Negro Rivers and their tributaries. Soon after their discovery, experts believed that the species could not breed in captivity. As Angelfish increased in popularity, hobbyist gained knowledge of the species. Their methods improved and finally Angelfish spawned in captivity.

To become a successful breeder of the fish, a person must have knowledge of the fish, water chemistry, food requirements. Some knowledge of what to do after the pair spawn, is necessary.

A little bit about terminology

The study of genetics, is beyond the scope of this writing, but a few explanations are in order.

1. Traits as defined, include the physical appearance of the fish. Color, size, general body shape, fin length and structure and the physical ability of body parts to function as they should.

2. Inbreeding is a method used, to intensify certain traits. The trait may be fin shape, size, color or patterns. It usually involves color and fin styles. It involves breeding back of very closely related fish. Brothers with sisters, mothers with sons and so on. It ends in disaster, often. The eggs have limited hatch rates. A large amount of the fry hatched have, missing tails, short gill plates, and have deformed bodies. Some do not have enough yolk sack to mature correctly. After the yolk sack disappears, they develop a pencil thin appearance and slowly die. Your losses will be unacceptable. Its time and money wasted.

3. Line breeding is an effective method used for the same purpose. It involves breeding back a generation or so in the linage, father to grand daughter, uncle to niece. The line breeding method is successful but remember that the bad traits will follow the good traits.

4. Out crossing is the method I prefer to use. After you have successfully spawned and raised your first batch of fry, shop around for unrelated fish that match the trait you wish to develop. Purchase some of these fish and mate them to your fish. Observe the results. Take accurate notes of the traits of both fish for later reference. This is important. Later, after the first hatch develops you can determine, which traits are dominate and recessive.

Some more terminology -- Genetics

Each fish has chromosomes that come in pairs. Each parent donates one chromosome to the genetic pair of the fry. One comes from the sperm and the other from the egg. Each chromosome has many genes. Each gene occurs at a specific point or location on the chromosome. This point is the locus.

Allele's are the variations of the gene that can occur at each locus. Since there are two pair of chromosomes, an allele can occur at the same locus on each chromosome. When the same trait is on the same locus of each chromosome then it's sometimes called a double dose. An Angelfish that has a double dose of the black allele, is double dark. When breeding two fish with the same allele at the same locus, the fish will breed true for that trait. It will be passed on to the fry.

A hybrid is a fish derived from two different allele's, sometimes called a single dose. Example, a white allele of the male, at the hypothetical locus #35 and a black allele of the female, at locus #35 would produce a hybrid. A fish that has traits considered hybrid, will not breed true. A certain amount of the fry will be true breeders of the trait though. You can use a punnit square, to calculate the percentage of the offspring traits that will carry through from such a mating.

Mutations are radical changes in the genetic material that result in a permanent change of a trait. The changes usually do not occur over time, as happens over many generations. They are a one time change. They can be brought on by many outside influences like chemicals, radiation, and environmental change, or just happen all on it's own.

Traits are considered dominate, when they over shadow other traits on mixed alleles. A recessive trait is the trait that does not show up in the fry after a mixed allele breeding. The recessive trait can show up in later breedings when two recessive traits occur together at the same locus. This happens often, when line breeding and inbreeding.

Body parts of the Angelfish

Dorsal fin: the top fin

The crown: a very small bump or curvature located right above the eyes on the top of the head.

Caudal fin: Tail

Caudal peduncle: Where the bottom rear edge of dorsal fin and top of the caudal fin meet at the body.

Anal fin: lower rear fin

Ventral fins: lower front fins

Pectoral fins: body side fins behind and under the gills

1. Always start with healthy fish -- Selecting the fish

Always select healthy fish, it offers the chance to complete a successful breeding program. The Angelfish is, active and inquisitive. They should not lie on the bottom or hide in the corner behind plants. The fish should come to the front of the aquarium to see what's going on, especially around feeding time. They are a very lively species!

Always select quality fish. A deformed, injured, or diseased fish is a risk, when selecting breeding stock. With experience, I have found that fish treated with some medications do not make good breeders. Be particular, it will benefit your breeding program in the months to come.

The true top quality Angelfish body and fin shape, form a sharp angle when viewed from the side. Starting from the top of the dorsal fin, to the mouth, continuing down the lower part of the body, the line formed should be straight and smooth. Fish that have sharp indentations around the head or abdomen areas that interrupt this straight line, are not top quality fish!

Never select Angelfish with malformed body parts. Defects in fins, mouths, and gill plates, are passed genetically, to the offspring. All fin's should be of uniform size and shape and the same general length and proportion. Gill plates should cover the gill opening completely. The upper and lower lips should come together to form a complete bite.

Breeding Angelfish as with any other fish, a hobbyist can select from a multitude of colors and fins. Be aware that some varieties are more difficult to raise. The common cause of genetically weak fish, is the selective breeding that created the strain. It is advisable to work with hardy varieties, slivers, marbles, and golds, with standard fins.

Locate fish from different pet shops in different areas. Ask the shop owners who the breeder was. Obtain stock from different source's to avoid inbreeding that is a common problem with local fish. Avoid buying breeding stock unless you can observe them first. When purchasing by mail order, always ask about the quality guarantee and refund policy. Shipping fish over long distances can be very stressful on the animal.

Will you use young fish to start with or an established breeding pair? Stop and ask yourself a question. Would you breed grandma and grandpa and expect to have healthy fry? This is not likely, but a very common mistake made by novice breeders! On the other end of the spectrum, very young pairs can have problems getting started due to inexperience. The chance for successful hatchings after a few tries, improves when using healthy young breeders.

If you choose to buy an established breeding pair, you should realize, that most commercial breeders like to unload their older stock. Just because the pair spawned for the breeder, is no guarantee that they will spawn for you.

2. Making sure you have a pair

Studying several pictures of Angelfish will help in determining what constitutes a quality Angelfish form. I prefer to locate and raise from very young fish, my breeding pairs. Following the information on healthy quality Angelfish above, select at least 6 quarter size angels. This will assure, at least one male and female in the group.

Place the new fish, all six of them into the 20 gallon or larger tank that you have already setup. A quarter size Angelfish is approximately 3-4 months old at this point. As they grow and increase in size pay close daily attention to their health, growth rate, and habits. Spend the next few months, getting to know your fish.

Sexing

Don't be in a hurry. The only way to sex Angelfish, is by observation of the mating tubes, of the fish. The females tube, is about 1/8 inch long, somewhat longer than the males. The males tube, is shorter and more blunt shaped. The tubes are visible, only shortly before and during spawning.

The tubes extend down from the vent area of each fish. White in color and as big around as a pencil lead in large Angelfish they can be easily seen during this time.

Many people believe that Angelfish mate for life.

I haven't found this to be accurate. With Angelfish, most mature male and female relationships develop when both fish are in the mood. I believe that the formal pairing, lasts only while the fish remain together. I have separated mated pairs and introduced a new mature male. He gladly steps in and takes over the duty, with full cooperation of the female. The first male is residing in the next tank, in full view of the female. This has always been my experience. Be aware that the cuddling up process, to the new mate will sometimes take a few weeks.

As the months pass, you should notice at least one pair maybe more, that are constantly together. The fish, may have accepted each other as potential mates. Soon, they will take over a corner of the aquarium. The male will start to show aggressive behavior toward other tank mates. He will attempt to drive them away from the female. Now that identification of the pair is possible, its time to separate them from the group. Either move the pair to a prepared tank or move the other fish.

3. Properly feed and condition them

It will take 4 to 6 months for the fish to mature. This is a very important time in their lives. The fish growth and development rates depend on the amount and quality of the food offered. Prepared commercial flake food is a very important part of the diet. It should not be the only food offered. You should have besides a commercial flake food, some frozen brine shrimp or other animal protein, as a supplement to the flake.

Feed your new fish twice a day, morning and evening alternating the type of food offered each time. Flake food in the morning and dried or frozen animal protein in the evening. Always select a good quality processed food. Animal protein includes tubifex worms, and during the spring and summer months, daphnia "water fleas" and mosquito larva, are also available.

Feed only the amount that they will eat in about 10 minutes. Clean up any left over food that has fallen to the bottom of the tank each day. When you do this cleanup it will be very apparent, why the use of a sterile tank is important. Cleanup can be kept, to a minimum and takes only a few minutes. The only other maintenance required, is water changes and filter media change.

4. Make sure they have enough room

Tank size is important for raising 6 quarter sized Angelfish. Please notice, that the reference to a quarter size fish. It only includes the body size of the fish and not the fins. You can, tape a dime, nickel, quarter and half dollar to the side of the tank to help determine size. A 20 gallon tank will be the bare minimum that can be used.

After identification, it will be necessary to place the remaining fish in another tank. At this point do not dispose of the extra fish. Continue to raise them in another aquarium because you may by accident, lose one or both of the pair. You never know, another two may pair off out of the original six fish purchased.

5. Proper temperature

A temperature between 72f and 78f will maintain the fish. The variations in temperature, used to accommodate a community tank environment is not necessary. We are raising fish to spawn and hope to raise the fry. For this purpose we should select the 78f range and maintain it. The result should be healthier fish and faster growth rates. By eliminating even small temperature swings the fish will pair off even sooner.

6. Proper water conditions

People say that the 6.5 pH range for breeding Angelfish is a requirement. Through experience, I can tell you that the Angelfish will breed at 6.5 pH to 8.0 pH ranges with 7.0 being close to ideal. Its also a lot easier for you as the breeder, to maintain a steady 7.0 pH range.

The most important item, is the general hardness reading of the water. The temperature and pH can be maintained as required. If the DH is off, the fish may never spawn. The general hardness should be around 6-9 [100-150 ppm]. Young fish purchased to raise into breeders, have at least 6 months to acclimate to the pH, DH, and temperature.

7. Proper lighting

A plain florescent shop light will work just fine. A four foot, 2 lamp fixture will do. A small plug in adjustable timer to keep the lighting constant, works well. Twelve to fourteen hours of lighting each day should be adequate. We will adjust the time values after we have established a breeding pair.

8. Keep the aquarium clean

Housing 6 Angelfish in a 20 gallon tank, requires small daily water changes. By changing 10% to 20% of the water each day, we maintain a clean environment. This promotes rapid growth and disease is at a minimum. The change is made in the evening while cleaning the bottom of the tank. Pay attention to the condition of the filter media and change it as required.

9. Hoods and lights

You may have noticed there is no reference to hood and light setups other than described earlier. This is because we aren't using one. It will only get in your way. If you feel you need a tank cover, then have a pane of Plexiglass cut and place it over the tank. It can be removed easily when you need full access. It has another use, I will describe later .

10. Record keeping

Now is a very good time to introduce you to the important task of keeping good records. You can use a note book or acquire a good computer program. Records are very important when tracking your performance and identifying potential problems. You will find the information you record handy. As you advance and wish to develop a new color morph or fin style, information you write down now is invaluable.

1. Tank records

a. temperature

b. pH readings

c. hardness readings

d. water changes

e. filter changes

f. feeding records

g. tank cleaning and maintenance

2. Fish identification

a. Each fish is different. The color, stripes, fin

shapes, and

markings help in identifying each fish. Record

each fish and name them if you like.

b. where the fish was purchased and approximate

age. c. Record sex when identified d. estimate

growth rates of each fish monthly e. note any

genetic deformity that may show up

3. Medications and disease

a. any illness or parasite infestation

b. medications or treatments, be specific and

record results or lack

of results.

c. record all losses and replacements

e. algae or bacteria blooms

4. Successful spawns

a. which pair

b. water conditions at the time

c. estimate number of eggs laid

d. estimate number of hatched fry

e. estimate number of fry raised

f. amount of lighting time

g. time of year

h. how many time each pair spawns

5. Production Costs

a. electric bill from pumps heaters

b. chemicals

c. medications

d. water bill

e. advertising if any

f. food cost

g. any additional equipment filter media, pump, and

heater

replacements purchased

6. Client base

a. name of shop and owner

b. type of Angelfish, color, fin style

c. number of each fish sold

d. amount per fish charged

e. shop tank space and conditions

f. payment record

By following the methods and instructions about selecting and raising the Angelfish its time to assume that we have our pair isolated from the group. The main reason to isolate the pair is privacy. The fish will be more comfortable and get down to business. There is nothing else to interrupt the process. No other tank mates to drive off, the entire territory belongs to them. Trying to raise Angelfish in a community tank, is a common mistake.

It's time, to place the piece of slate into the tank. You can rest a clean 2" wide by 10" long slate against one side of the tank. Ten inches should be considered a minimum length and allows for the spawn to happen in a natural manner for the pair. In a few days you should see the females interest level in the slate begin to peak. At first she will swim around the slate to investigate the new object. She will start pecking on the side glass but soon she will begin to peck the slate. She is cleaning and selecting the egg site. This may go on for several weeks with a young female. The male for awhile, will ignore this process. As her time gets closer, his interest will peak and both will clean and work on the slate.

Observe the female closely. You should notice that she is a little plumper than the male. Her eggs are coming on and she becomes swollen with roe. Within a few days of the spawn, you may notice her tube becomes extended. It may be down one day, and up the next. This is a sure sign that the spawn is close. You will not see the male's tube extended, until the pair is ready to spawn.

Now is the time to setup the other 20 gallon tank. Place the second tank, close as possible to the first tank. Have the pH, dh, and temperature as close to the breeding tank readings as possible. For the first time, its helpful to go back and read your notes on the amounts of chemicals required to adjust the first tank. If you made accurate notes, its easy and doesn't require a lot of time.

Leave the fish alone. Don't try to net them or disturb them in any other way. You can observe them, but if disturbed, they put off the spawn. When the time is right the female will make several false passes over the slate with her tube extended. She does this to excite the male. Now is the time to turn off the outside filter. It has a tendency, to pull the sperm away from the eggs.

After two or three passes, you will notice a neat row of small amber opaque eggs, deposited on the slate. The female will make a pass followed closely by the male who then fertilizes them. They back off, and fan the eggs using their pectoral fins. They will mouth, or blow water on the eggs. This is normal. If an egg falls to the bottom, usually the female will pick it up and spit it back onto the slate. The eggs are very sticky.

With a young first time pair 200 to 400 eggs is normal. The entire process of the spawn, may take several hours. Don't rush them or upset them, but keep a close eye on the pair. When the female has quit laying and the male stops making passes over the eggs its time for you to make the decision. However this time, i'm deciding for you. We are going to remove the eggs and hatch them artificially. Your hands need to be clean and free of any soap or hand lotion.

The natural tendency of the pair is to protect the eggs. This includes anything that comes into the tank including you. You have the hatching tank ready, so slowly move to the breeding tank. Now is the time to use the clean Plexiglass, I referred to earlier. As you move toward the tank, the pair may back off from the eggs and slate. If you are quick, you can slide the clean Plexiglass, between the pair and the slate. This will allow you free access to the slate without worrying about the pair knocking over the slate. As you gain experience and skill you wont need the Plexiglass barrier anymore. Your breeding pair, will become accustomed to the process.

Reach in and pickup the slate and place it into the hatching tank. You have to be quick, if you don't use the barrier. The male and female will move in to defend the eggs and may get excited. If this happens the slate will be turned over and the eggs scattered over the bottom. So, just take a deep breath, and do it. Do not expose the eggs to air or temperature change for more that 5 or 6 seconds.

The slate should be placed into the hatching tank, resting against the side glass as it was in the breeding tank. After the eggs are secure, be sure to turn the breeding tank filter on.

Next take the small air pump and cut a piece of air tubing of the appropriate length. Fasten one end of the tube to the pump outlet and place an air stone on the other end. Around the air stone at the tube connection using thread, tie a medium sized lead fishing sinker to the air line. This will keep the airstone stable so you can locate the bubble stream. Place the airstone sinker combination on the tank bottom about 1.5 inches from the slate. Turn on the pump and adjust the distance. The bubbles should pass in front of the slate and eggs at a distance of 1-2 inches. If you have a strong pump, move the stone back away from the slate.

No bubbles should touch the eggs. They will knock the eggs off the slate. All we want to do is, maintain a water flow around the eggs. This mechanical method is a substitute for egg fanning, provided by the fish. If some eggs fall to the bottom of the tank, don't worry. Leave them there, they probably will hatch.

At this point we need to add methylene blue to the water. The package will state that 2 drops per gallon as the normal dosage. I prefer to at least, double the recommended dosage. The purpose of the chemical is to help eliminate egg fungus.

The eggs should be an amber color. This can vary by several shades. During the first several hours a few of the eggs may turn white. Don't worry about them. These are eggs that either didn't get fertilized or fail to develop from the start. A lot of breeders worry about them and try to remove them. Leave them there, they will disintegrate. The only danger from defective eggs is the possibility of egg fungus. This rarely happens because we treat the water with methylene blue. The defective eggs after 24 hours will crumble to a fine white powder.

If the female attends the eggs, she will pick any white spot she can see from the slate. Some people claim that she eats these white eggs but this is not the case. It only appears this way. As she picks the white egg from the slate it crumbles in her mouth and the expels the fine powder out her gills, unnoticed. Please note, that half of the entire egg clutch may turn white before they hatch in 48 hours. This is normal with young first time pairs. Don't worry. If you maintain the breeding tank, they will spawn again in 8 to 10 days.

Now is the time to adjust the water temperature to 80f. It's only two degrees higher, but will allow the eggs to hatch in 48 hours instead of 60 hours it sometimes takes at 76f. Remember the eggs stick to the slate by a natural glue. In 48 hours if you look closely, the egg mass will become a wriggling glob. The eggs have hatched and the fry tails are active.

Angelfish fry, have a "glue spot" on the top of their heads that secures the eggs to the slate. They cling together in clumps. They remain this way for around 5 days. Then the clumps slowly break apart and the new fry will become free swimming. You may notice blue stringy material like a ball of thread all over the fry. This is normal and nothing to worry about. The blue color is from the methylene blue in the water. The stringy substance, is from the fry.

Angelfish fry, have a "glue spot" on the top of their heads that secures the eggs to the slate. They cling together in clumps. They remain this way for around 5 days. Then the clumps slowly break apart and the new fry will become free swimming. You may notice blue stringy material like a ball of thread all over the fry. This is normal and nothing to worry about. The blue color is from the methylene blue in the water. The stringy substance, is from the fry.

We haven't done a water change in the hatching tank. The change wasn't required until now. After the eggs have hatched we will do our first change, 10% of the tank volume. A piece of airline attached to a 10 to 12 inch section of rigid air lift tube works well. You also will need the 2 gallon white plastic pail. Use a white pail because any fry siphoned out, show up against the white background. We will retrieve them and place them back into the tank, after we finish cleaning. Run the end of the rigid tube siphon over the bottom of the tank. Notice the bottom covered with the white egg residue, as described earlier. We clean this up, with any fry that haven't survived.

After we have siphoned a bucket of water, make a close inspection of the bucket. There will be live fry in the bucket. Use a turkey baster to capture them and put them back into the tank, before you discard the old water. Any dead or dying fry should be removed during cleaning. They will also be in the bucket.

Replace the 2 gallons of water from your tap. Observe the temperature and try to match the 80 degree Fahrenheit range. Don't worry about chlorine unless it is very high in your area. The level wont be enough to hurt the new fry and it will help keep down bacteria levels. If the chlorine levels are high, then treat the water before adding it to the aquarium.

Adjustments for pH and dh are not necessary at this point. Note this is how locally raised angels become accustomed to your local water supply. This holds true, if your tap water is not outrageous. The tap water pH can range between 6.5 and 9. This will still work. There will be no need, to add anymore methylene blue, until the next spawn.

Feeding new fry. There are three foods that can be offered the very small fry at this stage. I refer to three because many times, others are not practical. Baby brine shrimp, strained boiled egg yolk, and commercial fry paste. I use baby brine shrimp. For starters frozen baby brine is always available from many pet shops. It is very easy to handle and storage is no problem. Take notice that baby Angelfish fry cannot eat dry powdered fry food at this stage. Even if they may try, they usually will starve to death because the material is hard. They don't like the feeling, in their mouths.

The frozen baby brine block, can be moved the length of the aquarium with one corner submerged in the water. Enough of the shrimp will thaw in the water, to feed the fry at each feeding. Be careful, over feeding at this stage is critical. The tank must be cleaned, uneaten food removed. Water must be changed each day, if the majority of fry are to survive.

As the young fry feed you can observe the bellies of each fry growing fat and they will take on a red glow. This is from the color of the baby brine shrimp they are eating. If you choose strained egg yolk, then their bellies would turn yellow.

To feed egg yolk for the first few days, hard boil the egg and remove the yolk. Chop or crumble a portion of the yolk into a clean white cloth. Fold the edges of the cloth around the yolk forming a small ball. Dip the ball end of the cloth into the tank and give a small squeeze. You should see, a fine silt of yellow egg yolk come out and spread into the tank water. The fry will swim around until they find it. I recommend feeding egg yolk, for only the first week of feeding. Then switch to baby brine shrimp. Try to feed the fry at least 4 times per day. Its better to feed several times per day than feed two large feedings.

I cannot over stress, the need for daily cleaning and water changes at this point. Your first few attempts. may not be very successful. The survival rate may be less than 25% or 55% of the original hatch. Do not get frustrated. Your kill will improve with concentration, motivation and attention to detail. When I finally disbanded my operation my hatch survival rates were 75% to 80%, but it didn't happen over night.

When you start feeding the fry, you will need to install a sponge filter, powered by your air pump. This can be the kind, with suction cups or the corner type. No matter what type you choose, you have to clean under a lukewarm tap water, until it runs clear. Do this regularly. Brine shrimp, will foul the water before you realize what's happening. We will not worry about the bacteria bed in the filter. We are making daily water changes that control the ammonia and nitrate levels. The sponge filter helps remove the detritus and uneaten food only.

At 36 days you can start feeding crumbled flake food and switch to regular frozen brine shrimp. Don't be surprised if they reject the flake food. It's new to them and will be hard in their mouths. If they refuse to take the flake food, then try with withholding all food, for a day. Then offer it again. They should accept it. Alternate foods, as we did with our purchased fish.

Moving the fry

As the fry grow, and become recognizable as Angelfish, the temptation to move them will be great. Do not attempt to do this, at this growth stage. The 20 gallon tank with daily water changes will be more than adequate until they reach the proper size. You may have to increase the water changes to 30 or 35 percent per day. You can increase the cleaning of the sponge filter 4 times per week. Do not move them until they reach approximately dime size. Do not use any form of power filter. The young fry will be sucked into the intake tube. They are not real strong swimmers yet. You can decide whether to split the hatch into two n20 gallon tanks or purchase a really large rearing tank. I purchased a 300 gallon rubber maid to use as a rearing tank. It cost me $150.00 at the local farm supply. I can raise 800 quarter sized angels in this setup with a large outside trickle filter. During the prime time of our breeding operation, we kept 5 actively breeding pairs going at one time.

Growth rate chart of Angelfish

* Newly hatched 4mm yolk sac

* 5 days 5mm yolk sac

* 9 days 7mm small straight

* looking 12 days 9mm separate

* dorsal and tail fins appear 20 days

* 12mm very small fish 28 days 15mm

* about the size of a small pea 36 days

* 18mm looks like a very small Angelfish 2

* months dime size 3 months

* nickel size 4 months quarter size 6

* months fifty cent size 8-12

* silver dollar size 1 yr

* minimum breeding size

Lets assume for the moment, that everything has gone well and we now have around 150 dime sized Angelfish. We are religiously cleaning and caring for the fish. It should be obvious, that the tank has too many fish of this size. The fry must be split, or transferred to larger quarters. If you have a 55 gallon tank or larger, you don't have any problems yet. If not, place about 30 of the dime sized fry into 20 gallon tanks. We have to do this. If not the fish will not grow as required, and disease may set in. Notice that I said yet. Your well on your way, but another problem is just starting. By now the breeding pair is spawning, at around 10 day intervals. New batches are on the way. You have no place to put them. A dime size Angelfish is difficult to sell to stores, they want at least nickel sized fish. You have to have the space, to continue until the first batch reach a size and can be sold.

Controlling the spawn

We paid very close attention to water conditions to get the pair to spawn. It should seem reasonable, that if we varied the temperature we can stop the process. We can! Slowly, lower the temperature over a period of several days to around 73 degrees Fahrenheit. The temperature is the easiest variable to control without upsetting the pair. Keep all other variables DH, pH and lighting the same as we started with. When we have the fry situation under control, we slowly raise the temperature again and start over.

Within two years, you will have tanks and fry running out your ears. That's when space and sales become a problem. When your sitting on 800 small Angelfish, you begin to drop your price to move the stock. That's the way we play the Angelfish game. Believe me, shop owners know this and will use one breeder against the other to get a lower price. You finally reach the point where you are going to go completely commercial, or quit. I quit, after reaching this point. I just didn't have the space to continue.

Raising Baby Brine shrimp

As stated before, baby brine shrimp are important to your new fry. Its is also very expensive, to purchase frozen at pet shops. So lets raise our own. From mail order vendors we can buy a pound of eggs for around 12 dollars plus shipping. Shop around the price varies. I always bought breeders choice eggs, and had very good luck with them.

To hatch the eggs, you will need a container. Several styles, are available from pet stores. The little black box type will not be large enough for our purpose. There are clear soft plastic cones available in the marketplace. I have one, and it works very well. It holds, about 1 liter of salt water and will make several small bags of shrimp in one hatch. After using this type for several months, I made another one. I cut the bottom out of a 1 liter plastic coke bottle. Leave the screw on cap, tightly in place. Clean the residue out of the bottle. Fill the bottle with tap water.

Non-iodized salt can be purchased at any food store and is cheap. Follow directions, on the egg can to determine the quantity of salt to the amount of water. Insert a piece of hard plastic air tube, into the salt water. Use the second air pump, to dissolve the mixture. Place 3 teaspoons of shrimp eggs into the bottle and continue the air. It helps, to place a used heater inside the bottle to maintain 80 degrees Fahrenheit. If you place the mixture next to a strong light source, you will have hatched eggs in 24 hours. The mixture will turn from dark brown the color of the eggs, to a bright red, the color of the newly hatched baby brine shrimp. Turn off the heater. Stop the air and let the new shrimp settle to the bottom. The hatched egg shells will float to the top. Unhatched eggs will settle to the bottom. In the middle will be the bright red shrimp. Siphon off the shrimp and feed some of it to the fry. If you watch, you can see the new fry chase the shrimp. Some keepers advise you to keep the old salt water to start the next batch. I do not advise, that you do this. The shrimp and water will foul in 36 hours at 80 degrees. Its much cleaner to make a new batch from scratch. You can use freezer bags and save the rest of the brine shrimp, frozen for later use.

Disease

And other possible tank problems Angelfish are susceptible to all the normal parasites. Fungus and finrot, that can develop in any aquarium fish. Since we are keeping large amounts of fish in an aquarium the trick is how to avoid them. We started with a sterile tank environment, and we are going to keep it that way. With no substrate, ugfs, plants, and other items we place in a normal aquarium, we have eliminated most of the breeding grounds for the pests. The only possible exposure to the parasite and disease, was in the very beginning, with the original 6 fish. In fact If you have followed directions and have not mixed water, dip nets, or tubes, your risk of parasites and disease is minimal. The only exception to this is fin and tail rot. These fungus and bacteria, can develop in crowded tank conditions and poor water quality. Hopefully, we have eliminated that possibility by constant attention to tank cleaning and water change detail. If by chance if we develop fin rot or tail rot, before we treat the fish its important to recognize what we are treating.

These problems develop usually, from small wounds created when a fin gets nipped. Before you turn to medications, try increasing the water changes. If the environment is clean, the fish's natural body defense will normally fight off the rot. Make sure your filter media is clean. Use medications only as a last resort, and follow package directions.

Ammonia and nitrate levels in a sterile tank are your biggest enemy. Watch the levels closely. Since we have no substrate for bacteria growth and very little growth on the filter media, we rely on constant water changes to keep the levels under control. If you start losing fish, look at this possibility first. It is important, that you monitor the levels and make the required water changes.

Keeping watch for the unusual fish

We are now, raising large batches of Angelfish. The odds are in your favor, that soon there will occur a genetic mutation or specific trait that may be unusual. Although it sounds bad, this may not be the case. A special color morph, fin style, or both may show up. When this happens, and it looks good, isolate the fish and continue to raise it. Never leave the special fish, with the group of a hundred destined for sale. You will, inadvertently send it to market. If the genetic mutation, turns out to be a defect, short gill plates, stubbed and missing fins, cup mouth, or poor body shape, you must destroy the fish. Always remember, genetic defects may show up long after the small fry stage. These defects will be passed, when someone tries to breed the fish. Adjustments to the program Everything we do, at some time may require minor adjustments. In our experiment we started with 20 gallon tanks. You will soon find out, that more tanks or larger tanks will be needed. You do not want to create an overcrowded condition. If successful this is always true. Its just the way the game goes. Be prepared to spend some more money on equipment.

The information I have given to you about water conditions will require adjustments. Spawning Angelfish can be done using scientific methods and making good notes. You are expected to do this. We may need to increase the lighting time above the tank to 16 hours. We may have to change the water chemistry a little bit. If these methods fail, you may have to try to develop another pair. Every fish in nature, doesn't find a viable mate. As long as we can communicate, we can work out the minor problems and you will succeed. After you have raised your first fry to a saleable size congratulations are in order. The skills you have developed can be used with minor modifications, to raise other species. I hope you have enjoyed the entire process and have learned something about Angelfish.

Sam McDaniel

[skippergr]

Πιστεύω ότι είναι θέμα απειρίας των ψαριών μέχρι τώρα είχα περίπου 15 γέννες αυγών και είχα το ίδιο πρόβλημα τιμές ph 7.5 kh 12

Εδώ και δύο εβδομάδες προετοίμασα το νερό με νέες τιμές ph 7.2 kh 8 και έγινε το θαύμα αυτή τη στιγμή υπάρχουν περίπου 30 νεαρά άτομα που περιφέρονται στο ενυδρείο μου παρέα με τους γονείς πάντα.

Φυσικά θέλω να πιστεύω ότι η προσθήκη led το βράδυ βοήθησε ιδιαίτερα για τη φύλαξη των μικρών μου φίλων από τους γονείς τους.

Υπομονή το μόνο που θα μπορούσα να σου προτείνω

Το ενυδρείο είναι φυτεμένο με προσθήκη co2 και αλλαγές 25-30% την εβδομάδα

[PAST]

Πιστεύω ότι είναι θέμα απειρίας των ψαριών μέχρι τώρα είχα περίπου 15 γέννες αυγών και είχα το ίδιο πρόβλημα τιμές ph 7.5 kh 12

Εδώ και δύο εβδομάδες προετοίμασα το νερό με νέες τιμές ph 7.2 kh 8 και έγινε το θαύμα αυτή τη στιγμή υπάρχουν περίπου 30 νεαρά άτομα που περιφέρονται στο ενυδρείο μου παρέα με τους γονείς πάντα.

Φυσικά θέλω να πιστεύω ότι η προσθήκη led το βράδυ βοήθησε ιδιαίτερα για τη φύλαξη των μικρών μου φίλων από τους γονείς τους.

Υπομονή το μόνο που θα μπορούσα να σου προτείνω

Το ενυδρείο είναι φυτεμένο με προσθήκη co2 και αλλαγές 25-30% την εβδομάδα

Μπραβο Βασιλη, τελικα δεν τα παρατησες μετα απο 15 γεννες εκανες τις αλλαγες που εκρινες απαραιτητες και καταφερες να βγαλεις μικρα.

Ξανα μπραβο.

Το ζευγαρι τι ειδος ειναι;

[skippergr]

Η μαυρούλα είναι η μαμά ο μπαμπάς λίγο ασχημούλης αλλά τον έχω εδώ και 2 χρόνια